Photo By Trent Nelson
The Salt Lake Tribune and KSL news are now reporting that Texas authorities have forced the FLDS mothers and children who were together since the raid last week, involuntarily apart. KSL reports that the Texas CPS authorities apparently lied to the mothers and children claiming they would simply be moved to another shelter. Rather, they dropped the mothers back at the FLDS ranch, and they are now separated from their children:
The children remain in state-run shelters, but it now appears their moms were separated from the children involuntarily this afternoon and taken back to the FLDS compound. Apparently without proper good-byes for a separation that could be long-term, or even permanent.
For the last week and a half, 416 children and 139 adult women have been at state-run shelters in San Angelo. The women were free to leave but were told that if they did, they couldn’t come back to their children.
Late this afternoon, FLDS spokesman Rod Parker told us all the women and children were put on buses this afternoon, supposedly to go to a new shelter. But the women were taken, instead, back to the FLDS compound and dropped off.
Parker says the separation of the mothers from their children was involuntary.
This is simply over the top. These people have no shame. They have no dignity. They have no decency at all.
From the Salt Lake Tribune:
Posted: 6:10 PM- SAN ANGELO, Texas – Texas authorities have separated many of the 139 women from the 416 children in state custody since a raid on a polygamous FLDS sect, sending some back to their ranch in Eldorado.
The FLDS has opened the ranch to the news media, said Rod Parker, attorney for the FLDS families.
Earlier today, all the children and women staying at Fort Concho in San Angelo were moved by bus to the San Angelo Coliseum. Later, the Texas Child Protection Service gave the women a choice: either go back to the ranch or to an undisclosed “safe location,” said agency spokeswoman Marissa Gonzales.
Only women with small children were allowed to stay at the coliseum.
Gonzales said the precise number of who stayed with their children, or those who went back to the ranch or to the safe location, were not known.
“We’re still trying to put that together,” she said, adding that the numbers should be available by Tuesday.
It appears from the Tribune report as well as the KSL report that some of the youngest children may still have their mothers with them. An earlier Tribune report appears to confirm the Texas CPS lied to the media and the mothers by implying they were going to move everyone to a larger facility, and then provide details only after the move was complete–I wonder why:
SAN ANGELO, Texas — Several buses loaded with FLDS women and children today left Fort Concho headed for the much-larger San Angelo Coliseum.
As buses rolled out early this afternoon, the passengers smiled and waved at bystanders. One girl shook her head “no.”
Groups of women and children could be seen in front of the shelters at the fort, where many of the 416 children from the polygamous FLDS ranch in nearby Eldorado have been staying since the state raided the ranch early this month. Officials have said they suspected the children were being sexually and physically abused.
The children are in state custody, but the 139 women who have been staying with them are there at their own choosing. Many carried matching royal blue bags, presumably holding their belongings.
Marissa Gonzales, a spokeswoman for Texas Child Protective Services, said only that “we are in the process of moving. We simply are not going to release any details about the move until it’s complete.”
The agency also canceled a press briefing that had been scheduled for this afternoon, but officials said they would have a statement after the move is complete.
They even canceled their press briefing until after they had forcibly separated mothers from children. According to this AP account in the Las Vegas Sun, the Texas CPS position is that it is not customary to have children who are the subject of abuse allegations to remain with the parents:
“It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made,” Gonzales said.
The women were given a choice: Return to the Eldorado ranch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon sect, or go to another safe location. Some women chose the latter, Gonzales said.
The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.
OK. Except that there is NO evidence, or should I say published reports in the media, that any of these children were the subject of any abuse or even abuse allegations–unless of course Texas has finally located the alleged 16 year old complaining witness–thus far that hasn’t happened.
CNN has also picked up the story:
A group of women from a polygamist sect’s Texas ranch returned to the compound Monday after authorities separated them from the 400-plus children now in state custody.
Rhonda Jeffs, mother of two of the children and a spokeswoman for the other women, said mothers of children 5 and older were told they could not remain with the children but could go back to the ranch or to a women’s shelter.
The number of women who chose to return was not immediately known, but it appeared to be fewer than the 130 who had accompanied the children taken after an April 4 raid on the compound.
“We wanted to come home,” Jeffs said. “Where else would we want to go? They didn’t even let us say goodbye to our children.”
Mothers who had children under age 5 were allowed to stay, Jeffs and Texas Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said.
Texas didn’t even let the mothers and children say goodbye? Are you kidding?
She said state officials made the decision after consulting with lawyers, health officials and child-welfare officials.
“They reached a consensus that this was in the best interests of the children,” Meisner said.
They reached a consensus. Really? Did the mothers who gave birth to these children, and who have raised them, fed them, clothed them, and cared for them all their lives have any say at all? Apparently not.
Let’s stop pretending, Texas, that you are in the least bit protecting these children. Let’s stop pretending, Texas, you have any regard whatsoever for the the fundamental rights that are objectively, deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition, and implicit in the concept of ordered liberty. Because, Texas, by your actions you have sacraficed the liberty and justice of all these FLDS families. You have sacraficed their fundamental rights of association and privacy on your skewed alter of West Texas justice. Shame on you all! Someone from the Texas CPS needs to tell Texas Governor Rick Perry, just to issue the extermiation order and be done with it.
April 14, 2008 at 5:56 pm
This is ridiculous. The only consolation I take from this is that every stupid move the Texas authorities take seems to trigger more and more attention to the inappropriate manner in which they’ve handled the case.
April 14, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Guy, thanks again for keeping up on this. I don’t think I say it better than you, so I’ll just quote you:
April 14, 2008 at 6:47 pm
The US spend a fabulous sum building an “industrial home” and paying staff to handle an expected flood of women fleeing polygamy once they had a refuge, in 19th century Utah. Only three women *ever* took advantage of that cavernous, empty building. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that Texas allowed the mothers to accompany their children only because Texas similarly expected a mass renunciation of polygamy once the women were outside the ranch. Since that hasn’t happened, Texas has no use for the women.
Texas has learned nothing from history, and nothing from the advice of the Utah and Arizona experts.
April 14, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I am outraged. Any remaining benefit of the doubt that I have been trying to give the Texas authorities in this matter is now gone.
April 14, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I cannot believe this is happening!
April 14, 2008 at 7:01 pm
I’m still waiting to hear criticism from anyone–where are the liberal watchdogs of civil liberties? Where is the NY Times editorial page, or some of the bleeding hearts from their op-ed page? Nowhere.
Apparently all concern for civil liberties disappears when we’re dealing with an odd religion, with odd and in our view distasteful marriage practices.
April 14, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Obviously, Guy, I left out the word “else” from the first line of my last comment.
Thanks for being a principled voice on this from the beginning.
April 14, 2008 at 7:13 pm
CNN is reporting live right now from inside the YFZ Ranch, and has apparently been talking to many members of the FLDS. Here’s what they’re reporting:
-FLDS women talked to all reported that they were married at least at the age of 18, and many were older.
-FLDS adherents have repeatedly told the media that girls marrying any younger than 18 is rare, and any younger than 16 is extrememly rare.
-FLDS are adamant that the anonymous caller, “Sarah” does not exist. No one knows who she is, and they believe the phone call was a hoax.
-A woman interviewed named Kathleen was just interview by Anderson Cooper. She says that the FLDS has broken their silence to speak to the media because “the nation has been so prejudiced against us and has a false image of who we are.” She says her children were forced by Texas authorities at gunpoint to load on the bus and threatened if they tried to resist. She refused to answer the question regarding how many wives her husband has, and says that those who don’t want to participate in arranged marriages have been free to leave. When asked about the “lost boys” she said, “it has nothing to do with the allegations at hand.” Copper has pressed her and charged that she is just rehearsing memorized lines. She is now appealing to the U.S. Constitution’s freedom of religion clause. “In the land of the free and the home of the brave, we are being treated like the Jews who were led to Nazi concentration camps.” Anderson smugly suggested that she has no real idea of what happened in WWII with the Jews, and she responded that she has a college degree and is “very educated in history.”
April 14, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Carolyn Jessop is now being interviewed by Cooper and is claiming that “Kathleen” is her former sister wife, and saying that the FLDS allowed her no rights, so Kathleen is a hypocrite for appealing to her constitutional rights.
April 14, 2008 at 7:24 pm
The pathological hatred against the Principle by these antis has born a bitter fruit, they are dangerous.
April 14, 2008 at 7:39 pm
What are we going to do? I want to help these people. I have written letters and posted posts but this has left me with no less outrage. What can we do?
June 16, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I need help I am now currently going through the same thing and I dont know what to do can you help me or know where I can go to get help?
April 14, 2008 at 7:42 pm
This is, in many ways but not all, a greater abuse than that which set this whole thing off.
April 14, 2008 at 7:51 pm
I feel so bad for the children, they must be so frightened right now.
April 14, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I’m with Stephanie on this one.
Brother Murray, you’re the legal whiz. What do we do?
April 14, 2008 at 8:40 pm
As far as I am concerned, any parent who facilitates sexual abuse of their child should have their “parent card” torn up. Those who allow evil to occur are co-conspirators and as guilty as those who perpetrate the abuse. And statutory rape is a form of sexual abuse.
April 14, 2008 at 8:52 pm
This is an evidence free inquisition. If they find evidence of actual underage marriages, they should prosecute, just as in Utah. Otherwise, they have no ground to stand on. Texas is looking more like a third world country every day.
April 14, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Christopher,
Agreed. It is incredibly stupid. It seems Texas engages in stupid in almost a logarithmic increase on a daily basis. Imagine what tomorrow will bring. Also, thanks for the CNN updates. I thought Anderson Cooper was incredibly obnoxious, bordering on the condescending. His bias against this community is apparent.
David G.
Thanks for the support, and for your comments.
Ardis,
Well put. Texas was indeed doomed to repeat the history, from which they never learned. I will be curious to see how many of the FLDS women actually choose to leave the compound when all is said and done. And, if some do, then I wish them well, and perhaps that will be some small glimmer of something positive coming out of this—if that’s at all a possibility.
E,
I think more and more are sharing your outrage and sentiments.
mmiles,
Me either. It requires as Hillary once claimed, the willful suspension of disbelief.
Mark B,
I am similarly puzzled. Where are the ACLU type groups? Does no one truly care what happens to these families?
AR,
The hatred is bitter indeed.
PDOE,
Yes, I think it has generated a much greater abuse than that which was originally alleged.
jjohnsen,
It’s unthinkable to contemplate how these mothers will feel tonight completely separated from their mothers.
Paradox and Stephanie,
Good questions. I don’t know what we can do. The only thing that comes immediately to mind is to pray for these families. Pray they have or obtain adequate legal representation to combat Texas in its court system. Pray that the truth will come out, and that if there is no substance to the original allegations that these families are quickly reunited. I confess, I am at a loss about what we can and should do, other than to make our voices heard.
Pouchg,
I don’t think anyone commenting or reading would disagree with your first sentence. The problem, of course is that there doesn’t appear to be any credible evidence to support such an allegation and the over reaching response by Texas here.
Thanks to all so far who have commented.
April 14, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Mark D,
You defame all third world countries with your statement, sir.
April 14, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Even if we do not agree with their religion, an obvious crime has been committed by the government against these mothers. As Ron Paul would say, “the federal government does not own our children.” It’s a shame that a questionable call against an unpopular religion playing on our own prejudices against that religion can lead to the uprooting of hundreds of children from their homes without evidence that could withstand a jury trial. Stop masquerading this case as trying to protect the children from child abuse and just come out and state that it is purely a disdain for the polygamous nature of their religion.
April 14, 2008 at 10:36 pm
This is wrong on so many levels. How can we help? Were they really harming anyone? Who will be next? Our Government seems completely out of controll. I thought this was a free country!
April 14, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Coming from an extremely liberal background in Michigan, I sadly will tell you most extremely liberal minded people are kind of for what is happening. If the news reports are true (underage marriage as young as 14, a bed in the church to consummate marriage right after the ceremony, etc), then most liberal people have no problem with taking their kids away. If the allegations are false then obviously there is a huge civil injustice; however, I think everyone is holding their breath to see what turns up.
April 14, 2008 at 10:55 pm
I believe these sects inflict fear into the women by taking away their children or threatening to do so. It’s the worst thing you can do to a women of any age. The greatest pain that can ever be inflicted. The pain is equally great for the children and the fear works in both directions to ensure obedience.
On another note, the women are brainwashed into believing that the greatest achievement in life is to please their husband, therefore pleasing God. Even if this means sacrificing their child’s happiness and God-given freedom.
How can the mothers be cited for fault when this ideology is the only one they know and it isn’t even their own? It’s the warped and twisted vision of a selfish leader who should have never been put into a position of authority in the first place. The book he’s following is as flawed as he is.
I believe Warren Jeff’s imprisonment is proof that God truly does “Bless America”.
April 15, 2008 at 12:59 am
I feel that this is a nightmare Texas doesn’t want, I believe that the people who want to adopt these children or provide foster homes, have no clue to what they are asking for, We are talking about a “mormon on steriods” in a non mormon christian family – not a good mix. People fear what they do not understand. I see this mess full of heart ache and pain, I feel for those people. This group teaches the government is corrupt, can’t be trusted and all the government has done is proven it to the children that their parents were right.
April 15, 2008 at 2:42 am
The news reports you have collected are truly alarming.
From the AP report you quoted from Nevada:
The problem, as I see it, is that an allegation of abuse has not been made concerning these 400 children. The allegation of abuse related to the 16 year old girl who called to report abuse that she had experienced. At the most, it would seem, this would justify investigating and removing that girl, and perhaps also her siblings, but not the children of all of the other parents in the entire community.
Texas has entered a village and took all the children from their parents based on information provided by a former inhabitant of the village and a telephone call reporting one girl’s experience of abuse.
I am at a loss as to how Phouchg — no matter what his/her feelings towards the LDS Church, and by association towards the FLDS — can justify this approach. In this case there is the repulsive spectre of arranged marriages and polygamy (though the extent to which underaged arranged marriages are really occuring remains in dispute) that apparently makes it easy for some people to “revoke” the Constitutional rights of American citizens. And yet, absent actual evidence that these 400 children have been abused, this curtailment of rights must be based, if on anything at all, on this group’s belief in certain religious tenets. (No one has said that the basis for this raid is that the inhabitants of the Yearning for Zion ranch are practicing bigamy, which would be the case if Reynolds and its progency were the basis for this action against the FLDS.) But the same Constitutional provision that protects Americans’ right to view, own, and distribute pornography protects the right of the FLDS to believe in and teach about polygamy, namely the First Amendment.
Still, this hasn’t been a First Amendment issue but rather a Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment issue. Each day brings new actions that very clearly run afoul of each of these Amendments. It would be amazing if this situation did not become the prime example for law school exams and bar exam prep courses on issues such as probable cause, searches and seizures, detention, parental rights, rights of children, and state police power vs. the protections afforded by the Federal Bill of Rights as incorporated against the States through the Fourteenth Amendment.
April 15, 2008 at 3:47 am
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8927977
Where did they put the teenage boys?
April 15, 2008 at 4:26 am
I’m just curious… Are the authorities going to spend now until the rest of eternity harvesting this religion’s female babies the moment they are born? What about the woman who just gave birth? What about the women who will give birth in the coming months? What’s next – are they going to ask that the wives perform abortions if they carry girls? Is the act of prejudging every member of entire communities going to become the norm based on the complaint of one individual? What kind of future can the authorities give these girls that is more appropriate than what they have now? Is part of their master plan that they take these girls away so they be given the right to tell their parents to f-off before 18 when they want to start behaving just like Britney Spears? Or maybe they will have the right to be single moms out of wedlock at age 15? Or maybe they will be handed off to a sex trafficing ring at some point in the future? Does anybody remember what the 8th grade girls acted like and talked about in public schools on the Friday before the weekend? Does that make your world better and more moral than theirs bro?
April 15, 2008 at 4:51 am
John this is how CPS all over, they constantly violate parent’s 4th Ammendment rights based on anonymous phone calls. The system is set up like this, it is not just one city or one worker who does it. Parent’s are not told of their rights, denied lawyers, CPS lies to parents about needing search warrants, families have the homes entered without warrants or permission, children forced to interview, workers fish for issues not part of the case, the kids are strip searched, children are seized without any evidence of abuse or neglect. Parents are guilty from the start. There is no burden on the accuser to show guilt. The kids are not returned or it takes a long time. Sometimes they terminate parental rights and never charge parents with anything. They are their own system of law apart from the consitution and the criminal justice system.
Basically it is set up so anyone suspect of child abuse/neglect can have their children taken based on even anonymous phone calls without evidence showing abuse or neglect.
The judges, lawyers for kids, GAL, always side with CPS. They are all being paid out of the same pocket. Revenue is generated to the state from the federal government when children are placed in custody.
The FLDS has media attention but CPS acts above the consitution all over the country. They aren’t treating the FLDS any different than Mr. and Mrs. Jones except some of the mothers are allowed to stay with them. There weren’t lying when they said that usually isn’t the protocol. Many children have slept in office building or cars after being seized from their homes.
Their bogus allegation of abuse is that all the girls are “at risk” because they made an assessment that the FLDS marry young. The judge gave an order to take custody of 400+ children based on them all being at risk.
April 15, 2008 at 5:06 am
Kevin,
Who says they will even be placed with a Christian family? If placed in foster care the least of their problems will be a difference of religion. They could be placed with a homosexual with multiple partners in his home or a single mother with boyfriends or in a two parent family who’s teenage son will abuse them. Being in the state’s custody puts them in a situation where they have a much higher chance of being abused.
April 15, 2008 at 6:17 am
They might be better off placed with a “non-Christian” family. I’ve known a lot of “Christians” in my life who were awfully hard on Mormons. Seems that an atheist family might be more tolerant.
I’m still appalled that they had the Baptists busing them out. Where the heck was the separation of church and state? I’m sure the Baptists have those poor babies convinced they’re going straight to hell.
Parents have no rights in this country. My daughter was taken out of her classroom and questioned by her school counselor because someone heard her father yelling at her in our own back yard. She was doing something dangerous at the time and he was trying to protect her. We were not informed of this questioning until after the counselor decided there was no abuse involved. We could easily have lost our daughter by raising our voices.
This country is frightening.
April 15, 2008 at 6:44 am
Wasn’t it late 1993 when the Texas Child Protective Services removed the children from the Beelzebub cult?
April 15, 2008 at 7:51 am
Jules I agree with you many protestants are hard on Mormons. I was just pointing out the high rates of abuse in foster care, horrible things that don’t even compare to having to deal with a salvation message in a baptist Sunday school class.
Do you guys think they seperated the kids old enough to talk so they could intimidate the kids into saying what CPS needs hear? They couldn’t find anything to cover their actions so did they get rid of the moms to try and manipulate the kids?
April 15, 2008 at 7:54 am
It might be hard to believe, but this is the first news (other than a quick snippet on “Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me” (an NPR news game) that I’ve heard about this. Our family lives in Mexico and we are DEVOUT atheists.
But first and foremost, we are human beings.
This is a travesty of justice, but I think we all know that Texas excels at travesty of justices. My heart is with the children and I can’t imagine the pain the mothers are experiencing.
Have these women no counsel? Are there no lawyers in Texas? Have they eschewed counsel?
April 15, 2008 at 7:55 am
It seems to me that liberals should be the first to support the FLDS lifestyle. Wasn’t it Hillery that told us that “it takes a village to raise a child”?
Having all things in common (including mothers it seems) the FLDS seem to fit the bill of the liberal nanny-state.
Maybe that’s what the Texas CPS were really upset about…they want no competition over ultimate control of children.
April 15, 2008 at 9:31 am
Isn’t it hypocritical for the government to frown upon the polygamy practiced by this religious sect when the government allows for it in practice by permitting Americans to repeatedly divorce and remarry at will and, in some states, allows the repugnant practice of men marrying men and women and marrying women?
Furthermore, it is unjust and traumatic for these Mormon children to be separated from their mothers. If a minor girl comes forward and affirms that she is pregnant by her 55-year-old “husband”, then arrest him, charge him and let him pay for his crime. These children are now victims of the state.
Isn’t it ironic that the same government that sanctions abortion is using allegations of child abuse to separate children from their mothers?
I am outraged and ashamed to be an American.
April 15, 2008 at 10:12 am
I see 416 lawsuits against the State of Texas in the near future…I cannot believe this is happening in the USA.
April 15, 2008 at 11:58 am
I think it would be a terrible idea to let the mothers of these children have any further contact with them while remaining in the cult. Members of cults such as this should not be allowed to have children. These young girls are brainwashed into thinking that they are lesser than their male counterparts, then married to men twice their age to make a bunch of babies. If that’s not abuse, then what is?
I have family members in a cult (not FLDS), and their actions have been tearing our family apart for years. Their (5) children will never lead normal lives, and I am completely sickened that nothing has been done about these cults before now.
April 15, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Britt,
The word “cult” raises my hackles. Typically it is used simply to defame a religious group that the speaker disapproves of.
Too often that religious group is mine, the LDS church.
On one web site that I frequent, emotions are running high against the FLDS. Some posters are suggesting, as you have, that the FLDS should not be allowed to have children. Others have gone further, calling for all manner of harsh penalties against these “cultists” who have yet to be charged with a crime.
What makes such comments especially alarming to me is that many of the same posters are saying that there is no difference between the FLDS and the LDS. It is only a matter of time, they assert, before the rest of the world catches on that we are just as dangerous a “cult” as the FLDS.
So let me ask you: Should my wife and I be allowed to keep our children?
April 15, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I don’t get it: how can anyone defend a group of people who force underage girls to marry old men? Polygamy among adults isn’t the issue: adults are allowed to live in any way they see fit. The Texas authorities aren’t going after polygamist–they’re going after polygamists who happen to be child abusers…. I think these mothers are participating in institutionalized pedophilia and hence are not capable of protecting their offspring.
April 15, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Jessie,
What I don’t get is the inability of some to distinguish between defending criminal acts and defending the rule of law.
I seriously doubt that anyone on the site would defend abuse, pedophilia (institutionalized or not), or forced marriages.
However, many people here are concerned that the Texas authorities, in their admirable zeal to protect children, may have run roughshod over the constitutional rights of the FLDS families.
In the end, the worst charges against the FLDS may well be established in a court of law. When that happens, the guilty should suffer the full penalties for their crimes. Until then, however, they should enjoy the presumption of innocence (a principle that often ignored by CPS workers).
April 15, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I am not sure why people are so outraged by this case. If the same call was made about a “normal” family the police would have done exactly the same thing, but probably arrested both the mother and father.
I do not disagree that there are probably many ‘innocent’ people caught up in this case, and many children have been put through hardship. However with a community that small, if even one child was married underage and the marriage “consummated” the adults of the entire complex should be charged with conspiracy.
I am glad that the US has such a strong stand against child abuse, or even alleged child abuse.
April 15, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I am glad that the US has such a strong stand against child abuse, or even alleged child abuse.
OK then. Let’s accuse you of abusing your children, then have the authorities come in and take your children away, as well as every child in your family and community. Just a precaution–you understand.
April 15, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Note that isn’t what is claimed happened in Texas. Rather they were taken away after interviewing them. And due process is going on since there will be a hearing before a judge on Thursday.
April 15, 2008 at 2:45 pm
“due process is going on since there will be a hearing before a judge on Thursday.” Baloney! It doesn’t look at all like any due process will happen on Thursday.
April 15, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Clark
They showed up with ambulances and SWAT teams and the TX state law enforcement to “interview” them. They were guilty before the investigation started. Thursday is basically a formality.
April 15, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Texas is now in the child raising business, and it doesn’t even have an orphanage. Church and state, keep them separate.
Well, if the government wants to get into how children should be raised, we ought to round up all Muslim kids. The world doesn’t need any more suicide bomber.
April 15, 2008 at 6:28 pm
While the Texas authorities seem to have gone over the top, don’t forget that if there is abuse against these children, the mothers are accomplices and not innocent in this. I trust that the truth will come out and those that have not been abused will be returned to their homes. If the call from “Sarah” was reported accurately, she stated that another “wife” held her infant while her “spritual husband” beat her. Sorry, but that makes her quilty as an accomplice. I hope this gets sorted out soon and that the children are not traumatized any more than necessary. However, it appears that it has been pretty difficult to even determine who belongs to who with different stories and names given and cover ups from within the ranch. I really don’t think most of us care about polygamy with consenting adults. I even don’t think it should be against the law. If adults want to live this way (and pay for it without taxpayers’ money), so be it. It’s statutory rape and assault on a child (called “not sparing the rod” by those wanting to give it a nice name rather than what it is – assault,) witholding education, exiling boys etc etc that is the issue. Right away, the “religious persecution” defense is waved. Religion doesn’t give anyone the right to abuse their children.
I didn’t live in a polygamus community, but I did look like these women once, with the “poof” hairdo and uncut hair, no makeup and long pioneer dresses. I know the self righteousness that those belonging to exclusive religions feel and the contempt they have for outsiders. Religious brainwashing is very powerful and it takes some time outside of it to see clearly. It won’t be easy for the young teenaged girls as they will be cut off from their families if they choose to stay outside. This is sad no matter what happens here.
April 15, 2008 at 6:44 pm
So because they came prepared in case there was trouble they obviously have no interest in due process and just want to destroy the FLDS because they don’t like the religion. Right.
No offense, but that’s strained logic at best. More on par with conspiracy thinking. Call me when you have some evidence.
April 15, 2008 at 8:25 pm
The mothers at the shelter were denied legal counsel, physicians have found no evidence of abuse and the children remain in custody, CPS has not found a caller, they wanted to have all the cases heard as one, they were granted custody of the children saying they were all at risk but have not charged the parents. This is not conspiracy thinking.
April 16, 2008 at 5:36 am
“No offense, but that’s strained logic at best. More on par with conspiracy thinking. Call me when you have some evidence.”
The burden of proof is on the state of Texas, not on those who are being accused.
Let’s get real. Does anyone here honestly think this would be happening if the accused were black, homosexual, or Muslim? The ghettoes in America are full of underage girls impregnated by adult men. These girls and their mothers aren’t seized by the government and then separated for the “greater good.” They are given housing, food stamps and welfare. Then the state pats them on the head and sends them their merry way.
Remember Terry Schiavo? If she had been either black or homosexual, she’d be alive today. This isn’t about “protecting” the children. This is about undermining a group of white Christian mothers and their offspring because they are white and Christian.
April 16, 2008 at 11:07 pm
As a mother who has had DCFS/CPS steal her 2 youngest children ( out of 4) illegally-what is happening here is CPS is taking these children and the state will recieve federal money for every child who is not returned and put in foster care. This massive CPS “sweep” is unconstitutional and the parents and children’s 4th and 14th rights to the Constitution have been violated. Where are the tapes of the 16yr old on the hotline?? Why can’t they locate her and according to the law a CPS investigation has to be performed BEFORE a child can be removed from their parents. Why weren’t these allegations from the 16yr old investigated? To take all these children from their home and parents is insane. Now they are saying the children have been raped and abused-the doctors who examined them said there was no abuse. CPS needs to be sued and the Governor needs to “step up” and stop these illeagl violations against the families.
April 17, 2008 at 10:09 pm
This is a tragedy in itself. What has our government come to. CPS should be ashamed of what they have done to these children. to let you all know my understanding from a CPS worker if an adult sleeps in their home while small children are in the house the adults are guilty of neglect. Therefore every parent who has slept in their is guilty of neglect. That covers just about 3/4 of our population. We as parents should go in arms against these government agencies and fight for our rights because any complaint to them can resort in you losing custody of your children to the government. Unless there was physical proof that these women were abusing their children they (CPS) have no right going into this compound and taking all the women and children from their mothers. Since is this called justice. The last time I checked removing children from their mothers is okay when the mother is physically, sexually abusing a child with intent of causing injury to the child. In Texas their have been so many deaths of children by the hands of mothers; where was CPS? Why wasn’t CPS protecting those children?.
April 18, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Maybe they could come up with something new in this case. Such as mothers and children being fostered.
Just a thought. The whole thing is a real tear jerker for me.
April 18, 2008 at 8:54 pm
I for one am so sickened. It is ok for kids to sneak out and get drunk. They can have sex with older guys. Like I had to put my grandchild on DEPO. Her friends at school drink,smoke,are rude and disrespectful.At 12 she looked 18 and boys hit on her. She talks to guys at her bus stop that the school makes her wait at.And check out these teens on myspace. They need to let the FLDS kids go home. At least they knew love and stability unlike many Calif. kids with druggie parents.Oh and I guess being molested is better than the FLDS way of life. Either before removal or in foster care kids are molested,beaten, etc.
April 18, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Mothers,
If you ever read these comments I want you to know that my heart goes out to you. It aches right now as I see pictures of some of you caught in devistation. I cry right now.
As a woman I am saddened to hear that you are all seperated from your children and that your lives have seemed to be ripped apart. Out here, many of us understand that how and where you lived was your life. All you know. Your belief system. And that has been shattered. I cannot begin to understand how you ladies are feeling. Please know that I am not privy to any particular religion. I was not raised that way. However, I do believe that we are all connected by one God. Whatever we choose to call it or however we believe or know what the history of our savior or leader into the next world is; faith in a pure and higher being is what bands us as humans. Tonight I pray that all of you will find comfort and that all of you will be together again soon as families.
April 18, 2008 at 10:01 pm
To all leaving comments or reading:
Emotions are obviously high on all sides. I ask that those who read this bow their heads for a moment (if praying is your practice); try to put aside your opinion for one moment; to for one moment let go of laws, rules, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, so on and so forth. Bow your head and pray that all the children that are frightened find comfort and that all parents without their children find peace; that this will work out the way God has planned or how the universe wants it to work out.
I just want everyone to remember for a moment that we are human beings and we can pray for peace and safety for all involved in this issue.
Take care,
Carolyn
April 19, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Carolyn is absolutely right….we must pray for the women and the children…I can’t imagine the pain they are going through right now. It seems to me that the men from the ranch should have been arrested and hauled off instead of the children.
These women are loving mothers and there is no proof that they ever consented to any type of abuse.
If there was forced marriages, then those mothers are yesterday’s victims….why punish them more…they need our help too. They don’t need anymore emotional pain.
April 19, 2008 at 7:48 pm
By the way, Jesse, no one is defending polygamy, just motherhood.