My last two posts, here and here, now quite some time ago dealt with the First Presidency letter read in Sacrament meetings all over California last June. I am pleased to see that since that time from what I have heard and observed, California saints all over the state have heeded and continue to heed that call, with their time, talents, and means. Tens of thousands have walked and continue to walk precincts and make telephone calls.
In our ward the Bishop has addressed the issue of Divinely appointed marriage between man and woman no less than three times from the pulpit, in Sacrament meeting, since the letter was read. The Bishop has also addressed the topic several other times in Elder’s Quorm, High Priest’s Group as well as the Relief Society. We in the Aaronic Priesthood have been asked to teach the concepts from the Family Proclamation to our young Aaronic Priesthood holders, which we continue to do. I can only assume that the effort is being replicated to one degree or another all over California.
There are several other churches involved all over the state as well; however, it is very clear that local California LDS wards are very active in fulfilling the call handed down by Prophets, Seers, and Revelators to do all we can to support the proposed constitutional amendment by donating of our means and time to assure that marriage in California is legally defined as being between a man and a woman.
There is more to come. Now that Labor Day has passed and the general election is in full swing, people are begining to pay more attention to election related issues. Within the next several weeks the Yes on 8 campaign will kick into high gear, fueled in no small part to individual members all over California doing what they can to support and heed the Prophet’s call. It is inspiring, and humbling to see this unfold and be a small part in what I believe to be an unequivocal moral issue–one with far reaching ramifications that too often on the surface is reduced to simplistic, superficial arguments and political sound bites.
September 6, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Based on the turnout from our Stake today, more and more members are getting involved. About half the people that showed up had not gone walking in the precincts before. That is encouraging and so was the response we received as we spoke with our neighbors.
From what I have heard we will be doing two more sets of Saturday walks over the next eight weeks before the election. In this first set over the last few weeks we were only seeking to know if our neighbors had heard of the proposition and how they would vote if the election were held today.
September 6, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Track the efforts of Latter-day Saints in raising money and working for Prop 8 at:
http://mormonsfor8.com/
September 7, 2008 at 7:07 am
Check out this site to see how well donations are going:
http://www.mormonsfor8.com
September 7, 2008 at 8:17 am
according to my wife, in her ward this is not a big deal. When the June 29th letter was read by the bishop, he nervously and quickly read it, but offered no comment. There has been no further mention of it in her ward since then. No lessons, no announcements, nothing in the ward bulletin etc.
Perhaps her bishop has a conscience and is troubled by this inappropriate grandstanding.
September 7, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Phouchg,
Perhaps her bishop is afraid of those who cling to the philosphies of men more than the philosophies of God.
September 7, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Unfortunately, the proposition will likely lose.
Ballot initiatives lose support. They don’t gain during a campaign.
Why? Once the opposition starts support declines.
With the most recent polling being 40% for/52% against, it will likely get worse.
Could it have been turned around earlier, perhaps with different, more persuasive messages? Hard to say.
September 7, 2008 at 2:19 pm
My mother is the regional director for her area in CA, and has noted the withdrawal of participation of many other faiths in the area. With Prop 22 back in 2000 there was a strong coalition of faiths, each throwing in its support (in terms of money and individual support) to help get the measure passed. This time around (at least in her part of San Diego), the Latter-day Saints are the main (and nearly only) supporters from the faith community.
That doesn’t bode well for the measure of success overall… But we’ll all keep up the fight, regardless.
September 7, 2008 at 3:44 pm
My friends living in the Orange County area say the same thing Connor. Not that it seems to matter, their bishop read the letter, and they haven’t really heard about it much since. I told them what Guy had written about multiple lessons being taught on the subject and they thought it was weird. I guess different Stake Presidents are treating it in different ways.
September 7, 2008 at 5:28 pm
All we’ve heard about for the last several weeks in every class and Sacrament meeting and then again last night and today in Stake Conference is Prop. 8. I’m getting a little tired of it really. It seems like preaching to the choir. Our area (Central Coast CA) is highly conservative so everyone is generally for it. I think our efforts would be better served by moving them down the coast a little where the area is much more liberal instead of knocking on doors of people who are as for it as we are.
September 7, 2008 at 8:02 pm
#1 Tim,
Thanks for that update. Where are you in CA?
#2 mimosa, thanks for the link.
#3 Phouchg, can’t speak for your wife’s ward (which is it?); but here on the Central Coast–Santa Maria Stake–it’s a pretty big deal. From other reports I hear around the state, it’s a pretty big deal. I’m curious to hear what ward and what stake you think where it’s not a big deal.
#4 NODYMB1, I’m not convinced #3 is necessarily accurate.
#5 Steve, You could be right. I’m not certain what to make of the polls. One poll earlier suggested voters might support the amendment.
We won’t know for certain until Nov. 4.
#6, Connor–yes, all we’ve been asked to do is what we can. Of course we can’t guarantee passage.
#7 jjohnson, It may very well be the case different wards and different stakes give different levels of priority.
#8 Beth, Most of the precinct walking is to identify supporters not so much to preach to the choir as it were.
September 7, 2008 at 10:07 pm
There seems to be pretty big support for 8 here in Modesto, both from the Church and from other organizations. I wouldn’t think that the 40:52 numbers are representative of the northern San Joachin valley at all.
September 7, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Jennifer Kerns, the spokeswoman for the Protect Marriage campaign, the proponents behind Prop 8, said, “We believe polling numbers are more aligned with the recent results of the Los Angeles Times poll and Survey USA poll, which shows that Proposition 8 has a slight lead. In the past, support for our side has been underestimated.”
“We do agree with Baldassare when he says it’s early in the season,” Kerns added. “We plan to run a campaign to aggressively get our message out to voters.”
September 8, 2008 at 10:32 am
You can read more details of my precinct walking experience on my blog, Latter-day Commentary. In addition to what I wrote there about results in Camarillo, I can report that the groups who knocked on doors in Oxnard did not have as favorable a response as I did. They discovered that about one third of the people they spoke with there were opposed to the proposition. Oxnard has a much different demographic than Camarillo.
September 8, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Beth (#9): All we’ve heard about for the last several weeks in every class and Sacrament meeting and then again last night and today in Stake Conference is Prop. 8. I’m getting a little tired of it really.
Even my 15-year-old daughter admits she’s getting burnt out on the topic; the last week in August was out “fifth Sunday” lesson from the Bishopric during the third hour of the block, and the lesson ran some 10 to 20 minutes longer than the usual block schedule would normally allow.
The scriptures speak forcefully against the exercise of “control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness”, and letting us know that when it happens, the power of the Priesthood is nullified.
Passing laws is most definitely an attempt to compell others to believe as we do. When we pass a law, at the end of the road of that law, it leads to a place where we give our consent to having someone point a gun at another human being in order to say “you will see it my way, or else.” Do we point a gun at them right away? No, of course not. But what happens when they resist accepting our definion of what constitutes acceptable legal spousal relationships? Do we fine them at first? Do we escort them out of hospitals when they actively object to not being treated equally under the eyes of the law? When they tell us we’re wrong, and that they most definitely will stand up for what they consider to be their rights, do we then call the cops (who will ensure their cooperation by pointing a gun at them, or by the implied threat that they can always do so) to make sure they conform to our understanding of exactly where their rights start and stop?
Are you willing, should a same-sex couple move into the house next door, to go over there and point a gun at them in an attempt to convince them of the error of their ways? What punishments do you want to see enacted into law should someone break this law? A law enacted without punishments attached really is no law at all. If a gay couple insist on telling others that they are married, despite what the law determines their relationship to be should this proposition 8 pass, should they be punished in some way for misappropriating the word despite the clear wording of the state constitution?
It seems to me, given that I’ve heard no one state that they want to scale back the parallel rights that are already supposed to exist for same-sex couples, that all we’re fighting for with this law is the definition of a word. Are we really willing to have someone point a gun at our neighbors over the definition of a word?
September 8, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Guy (#10): Most of the precinct walking is to identify supporters not so much to preach to the choir as it were.
One can not “identify supporters” without identifying non-supporters at the same time. Would you be willing to admit that identifying non-supporters must therefore also be part of the purpose of precinct walking?
Sounds slightly coercive to me. Maybe your neighbors would prefer the anonymity of the voting box come November, and would rather not be identified as a non-supporter of prop 8 in the meantime. Of course, they could always lie to you and say, yes, sure, we support prop 8 like you do, but you wouldn’t really want to put yourself in the position of making your neighbors tell you little white lies about how they feel about things, would you?
September 9, 2008 at 8:01 am
The information from these door to door walks will be used to identify supporters of Prop 8, who will then be encouraged to vote. I guess they will be called or visited again. That means that conservative voters will get an extra call and reminder to vote. Seems to me that LDS efforts are really going to affect more than this one issue. I live in an area where the congressional race is very close– seems to me that this effort could affect the outcome, if it brings out a slightly higher percentage of conservatives. Is that really right for the church to do?
September 9, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Prop 8 supporters – I’d love to see your response to the points listed below.
Prop 8 opponents – I suggest that everyone copy the following statements onto small slips of paper and put them under the windshield wiper of every car in the church parking lot. This will embolden those who oppose the church’s position and spark discussions in Elder’s Quorum and other orgs. maybe we can get people to actually think.
********************************************************
Promoting Proposition 8 Is Contrary To The Scriptures
1. LDS scripture (D&C 134:4) says we can’t use our religious opinions to justify infringing upon the rights and liberties of others. (see also 1 Cor. 10:29).
2. Gays in CA currently have the right and/or liberty to marry.
3. We are attempting to infringe upon this right/liberty in contradiction to scripture, because our religious opinions regarding marriage and homosexuality prompted the prophet to oppose this.
4. However, the prophets have all stated that their own words are subserviant to the scriptures and that we are to ignore anyone’s teachings, including their own if those teachings contradict scripture.
5. Only by sustaining prophetic statements by following the procedure (Common Consent of the 12 and of the entire Church) we’ve always used for sustaining a revelation, can the scriptures be superseded. That has not been done nor even discussed as far as anyone can tell. No mention of any revelation has been heard of as is required to sustain statements controverting scripture. (Abandoning Plural Marriage and giving the Priesthood to all worthy men both came via revelation, sustained by the 12, then approved by the Church. Doing this superseded previous established doctrine)
6. Since D&C 134:4 is superior to contradicting statements made by ANYONE, even the prophets, according to the prophets, and since it hasn’t been overturned nor any efforts to do so via historic guidelines of Common Consent have been discussed, the validity of 134:4 stands.
7. Since it stands, our efforts to infringe upon the rights and/or liberties of gays are wrong.
My House is a house of order. All things are to be done in order.
Vote NO on Proposition 8
********************************************************
September 9, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Guy, from the beautiful Ojai Valley, Connie and I have walked our immediate neighborhood for two Saturdays now and find most people don’t know what Prop 8 is. We have only run into 2 households who were a definite no. I would say after a brief explanation of what Prop 8 is, about 50% are positive, the two houses negative and the others undecided, with differences within their own homes. As for help, we just passed off part of our area to a non-LDS local congregation who will join us in walking. We have passed out the flyers directing folks to the ProtectMarriage website and wish we could direct them to your blog also, protectingmarriage.wordpress.com, which we have done via email to friends and fellow walkers. Thanks for all your work and support. We’ll be back walking again this weekend.
As for our ward and stake, we have been asked to talk about the Proclamation each week in our meetings. The Stake President, also an attorney, has spoke at length in Stake Priesthood meeting, Stake High Council/Bishoprics meetings and Stake Leadership meeting as well as our local priesthood meeting last Sunday at our request. It is an invitation to take a stand and provide support, as in all things, some accept and some don’t.
Interesting thing, while walking, I did come in contact with a pair of elderly ladies who are Jehovah Witness, when I talked with them, they said they don’t vote. I didn’t know that.
In talking with a non-LDS friend today, they mentioned that their pastor has said this is political and he doesn’t do political, in spite of the pastor supporting only marriage between a man and a woman. Political, I think this is LIFE, and to stand on the side and watch the parade go by, you will become Life’s victim, rather than helping direct the path for good. Enough said.
September 12, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Ron Prentice Gets Rich Fighting Gay Marriage
Ron Prentice is CEO of the California Family Council and Chairman of ProtectMarriage.com, the committee behind Prop 8 (the folks working to ban gay marriage in California).
Ron is set to be be honored at the Values Voter Summit 2008 (September 12-14) with Focus on the Family Action’s Family Champion Award.
Justin McLachlan has broken a major story in the Proposition 8 battle: California Family Council contributions have mostly been spent on the generous salaries that Ron pays himself and his staff.
So far, there’ve been about a dozen news and blog pieces that have appeared online referencing Justin’s research into Ron Prentice and his shady management of donor funds.
Folks volunteering for and making contributions to the “Yes on 8″ campaign should be aware that the operatives running the show have a track record of using contributions to generously reward themselves.
http://justinmclachlan.com/08/46/california-family-council-money
September 12, 2008 at 3:02 pm
It is rather eye opening to see how this event is turning out. I currently live in California and am seeing the different reactions people are having to this proposition, and this includes members and non-members alike. I believe that although it is important to pass this proposition, even more importantly it is a trial by fire for the members. Some members can’t handle the fire and are burning up in the process.
As I read the writings in these blogs, I am sad to say I am left wondering at times if these posters are actual members of the church? I would dare say there are wolves among the sheep. Although I realize that we are all at different levels of spirituality should we not all be one in our desire to follow God’s will as delivered to us by his Prophet? Surely this is required of all members despite your personal opinions. If the prophet says to do something you do it without question. Yes I realize you intellectuals mock at this idea, which is why you are the way you are. Remember that Isaiah teaches that Gods thoughts are not our thoughts, but they are the higher road we should follow. There is no way around it. If the church says we are against gay marriage, then we stand and fight against it. We don’t act as Laman and Lemuel and cower and question what to do. Repent of your ways and join again with the saints of God.
To those of you that have picked up your title of liberty and marched forth valiantly, thank you for the example that you have given. The road is not easy, but you have pushed forward and whether or not the proposition passes you have given your all.
I only posted this because I am tired of hearing people whine about how hard it is, or that the church shouldn’t be involved in politics. Get real people. You can think what you want about the church, but with or without you it will go on. So stop whinning.
September 14, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Mat said “If the prophet says to do something you do it without question.”
George Albert Smith, prophet, said this opinion “does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church. . . the Church gives to every man his free agency, and admonishes him to use the reason and good judgment with which God has blessed him.” (Letter to Dr. J. Raymond Cope, First Unitarian Society, SLC, Dec. 7, 1945)
Brigham Young said “I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken the influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.” (JD 9:150)
Joseph Smith said “I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way.”
Sorry Mat, but I will go with the prophetS on this one.
September 16, 2008 at 10:07 am
So it appears we can decide when and where we will follow the prophets’ counsel. If it serves our current political agenda we can ignore them and use quotes from other prophets as reasons to do so. Why are past statements more important/valid than current counsel? The only reason I see is because they agree with an individuals current ideals. Its not about seeking to understand why the leaders might encourage us to do something then trying to follow, but finding reasons they are wrong and other prophetic counsel that would excuse us from being obedient?
September 17, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Norcal-t said “So it appears we can decide when and where we will follow the prophets’ counsel.”
Yes, of course, always, no matter what issue. It’s a little thing we all fought for called free agency, I believe.
As to the rest of the comment about ignoring the prophets if it serves our own political agenda, past statements being more important than current counsel, finding reasons why the current prophet is wrong and seeking excuses for disobedience, Norcal-t, you must be talking to somebody else. The only point of my post was to show that the blind, unquestioning obedience which Mat advocates is not the position of the Church or the prophets themselves. If you read the rest of this into what I said, then my compliments on an active imagination. If you re-read carefully, you’ll see there is nothing in my post about any of this, and you can’t tell which side of Prop. 8 I favor. A little more objectivity, please.
September 19, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Jay Says: September 14, 2008 at 6:05 pm wrote –
Mat said “If the prophet says to do something you do it without question.”
George Albert Smith, prophet, said this opinion “does not express the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true ideal of the Church. . . the Church gives to every man his free agency, and admonishes him to use the reason and good judgment with which God has blessed him.” (Letter to Dr. J. Raymond Cope, First Unitarian Society, SLC, Dec. 7, 1945)
CM – Check out these quotes – The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as a revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth. (Harold B. Lee, The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, edited by Clyde J. Williams [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1996], 544.)
It is most appropriate here to quote President Joseph Fielding Smith in his classic statement: “If I ever say anything contrary to the scriptures, the scriptures prevail.”
(Mark E. Petersen, Adam: Who Is He? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1976], 15.), (Church News, August 23, 1975)
The “lay” members of the Church are under obligation to accept the teachings of the authorities, unless they can discover in them some conflict with the revelations and commandments the Lord has given. There are times when the leading brethren have expressed their own opinions on various subjects.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols. [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1957-1966], 2: 112.)
September 21, 2008 at 2:25 pm
As many of you know the Mormons are one of the largest financial backers of the attempt to pass Proposition 8. The Mormon Church has been putting extreme pressure on its members to support the amendment.
I am a Mormon High Priest in good standing in the church, and I am offended that our church would take such a horrible stance. There are many other Mormons, who also disagree with the Mormon Church, and many of us have begun to speak out on websites such as Signing for Something, http://www.signingforsomething.org/blog
Additionally, there are many other Mormons who also oppose our church’s stance, but assume they are the only Mormons on the planet who disagree with the church leadership. I am not a regular reader of this blog, but am posting here in hopes that perhaps at least a few Mormons who disagree with the leadership on this issue might learn that they are not alone.
Thank you.
Andrew Callahan
Hastings, Nebraska
September 25, 2008 at 4:05 am
[...] California Saints Are Heeding The Call Messenger and Advocate – September 6, 2008 [...]
September 26, 2008 at 9:44 am
I find it interesting that people who have not studied the full impact of this prop feel they are qualifed to pass judgement on the issue. As a mother and grandmother in Ca we are already seeing the changes in our schools. I don’t think children should be exposed to sexual tendencies in kindergarten. I am saddened that in this state there are no longer mothers or fathers only parents or partners. We no longer have brides and grooms just party A and party B.
I believe God gave us agency to follow our heart, but I, for one, am so thankful that He also gave us a prophet to guide and direct us. I don’t think we are truly disciples of Christ when we pick and choose what counsel to follow.
In the end, I want to stand before Christ and know that I fought as hard as I could to defend the family which is the core of the eternal plan.
September 27, 2008 at 9:50 am
“… I fought as hard as I could…”
Does the Lord really want us to fight?
September 30, 2008 at 5:34 pm
There are a lot of silly comments on here, with members of the Church justifying their opposition to Prop 8. Elder Ballard, in a recent visit to California, was asked if Prop 8 was a winnable war. What he said was most telling:
“My answer: We are standing for the Lord Jesus Christ and his eternal plan. The only acceptable marriage union in His plan is between a man and a woman. …
“The issue of whether this is winnable or not doesn’t matter. We stand with the Lord Jesus Christ, and if we do what he wants us to do, he will smile upon on our efforts.
“So, whatever happens at the end, whether Proposition 8 passes or fails – We stand for the Lord.”
So, I guess it just depends whose side you’re on. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
October 1, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Thanks Cap’t. Moroni and Jay for treating us to some common sense for a change. I, for one will vote against Prop 8, as will many of my fellow saints, because it is a wedge issue, and one in which we should not tell others how to live their lives. If you don’t like gay marriage, then for goodness sake don’t enter into one. But it is not up to us to use the ballot box to force others to live as we think they should.
It is also heartening to see that the chances of passing this Prop are diminishing by the day.
October 1, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Well, as I understand it, the only acceptable marriage at all, so far as the Lord is concerned, takes place in a holy LDS temple of God. Everything else is only temporary and a mockery of God anyways. Since we believe that, maybe we should make it a Constitutional requirement that only marriages between a man and a woman that has taken place in an LDS temple ought to be acknowledged as being valid by the state.
Let’s outlaw coffee and alcoholic beverages. Let’s start insisting on automatic withholding of tithing from all paychecks. Let’s establish statewide Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching companionships for every citizen of California.
If we’re going to insist on doing things God’s way, then let’s go all the way and stick to our beliefs one hundred percent. We are the true Church, and it can’t help but benefit everyone and help get California more ready for the Second Coming, right?
(Or maybe that is the plan, it’s just a little further down the road for now, and not something we’re quite ready to admit to publicly.)
October 5, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Want to know what our children will be taught at school if prop 8 does not pass? Parents will lose their parental rights at the schools. Kids will be taught that gay marriage is OK and morally acceptable and won’t be able to do a darn thing about it. It already happened in Massachusetts. Watch this short video:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1815820715?bctid=1822459319
October 6, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Everyone seems to be afraid of what children will be taught in school should Prop 8 fail.
Who has the last word with regard to what children are taught? Public school teachers, or their parents?
Is the panic over what somebody else’s children are going to be taught, or over what your own children are going to be taught?
If parents are allowing public school teachers to have the last word with regard to any topic at all, then whose fault is it?
If the fear is over what somebody else’s kids are going to be taught, that’s not really any of our business, is it? Or do we have the right to insinuate ourselves and our beliefs between someone else and their own children?
October 17, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Do you forget the Proclamation to the Family?
“The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.”
“The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.”
“We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.”
“We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.”
It says it all right here. This is doctrine from modern revelation straight from Heavenly Father. The second to last part is especially important. Our nation will fall if this does not pass. And you will stand accountable before God.
November 13, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I haven’t read all the comments, but what it comes down to is whether or not you personally believe in a cause or not, if the church leaders ask us to do something, we do it because we believe in modern day revelation and prophets and we continue to seek our own personal testimony of the truth.
Since this has already passed, I think we are blessed in that way, but the fight seems to be far from over. I am continually disappointed at the hypocrisy of many of the people who are supporting “no” on this issue. I have seen far more hateful and intolerant behavior from that side of the fence than I have seen from any person supporting the “yes” view. We are allowed to side with the scriptures and believe that homosexual behavior is wrong and not to want to encourage it, even though we love those people who feel that way. We have the freedom to express those opinions without having to worry about retaliation from those who believe differently.
It is going to be continually more difficult to be “fence-sitters” in the world today. The Lord says that those who are not for Him are against Him.
November 19, 2008 at 11:20 pm
[...] were a tiny fraction of the population, but they were the ”main (and nearly only) supporters from the faith community. Information from Church leaders reports that the work will not succeed without strong LDS [...]