How wide the divide? Well, on almost all of the major political issues of the day, the contrast between the Obama-Biden and the McCain-Palin tickets are virtually grand canyons apart; however, on the most critical moral issue in California’s election, all the major candidates have agreed on the record that marriage should be between a Man and a Woman.
October 7, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Guy, I’m hearing some noises that the tide of public opinion in CA may be turning in favor of Prop 8 (see, e.g., http://volokh.com/posts/1223402724.shtml); and would be interested in more “news from the front”.
October 7, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Eh, Obama has specifically come out against Proposition 8:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-briefs5-2008oct05,0,1062302.story
“Ben LaBolt, spokesman for the Obama-Biden ticket, said Obama opposes Proposition 8 and “similar discriminatory constitutional amendments that could roll back the civil rights he and Sen. Biden strongly believe should be afforded to all Americans.”"
Of course if you’re trying to trick Obama fans into voting for Proposition 8 then by all means go ahead. I agree that being against same-sex marriage and also being against Proposition 8 really doesn’t make logical sense so I suppose it’s fair to twist Obama’s position in this manner.
October 7, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Jim, the same group that has swung in favor of Prop 8 (young voters) was against it two weeks ago. I don’t think this is a permanent turn, all polls are still saying it’s too close to call.
October 7, 2008 at 4:15 pm
JimD
I saw a coalition email within the last few days which in essence claimed the proposition was behind by about 6 points, but now they believe the gap has closed to about 2 points. I don’t know if this is internal polling–it probably is. I know the coalition is very organized, and the Church members are playing a very big role. I would not be surprised to see the proposition tighten up and be close–who knows. I do know they are planning a big October push. There will be more media ads. The signs have just arrived, and pro 8 forces are energized. We are, in fact, doing all we can to help this proposition pass. Time will tell. I will be posting more and more during October about Proposition 8 here on Messenger and Advocate.
I also have another more secular Proposition 8 site, which you can monitor as well:
http://protectingmarriage.wordpress.com/
Aluwid:
Your comment makes no sense. I’m not trying to trick anyone to do anything. I’m stating a fact that all candidates for president and vice president believe marriage is between a man and a woman. That is a fact.
It is also a fact that I am a long time Obama supporter, and will be voting for him within the next few days, via absentee ballot. I will also be voting for Proposition 8. I am not confused, or tricked in the least. Sen. Obama’s position as well as Sen. Biden, McCain, and Gov. Palin’s all favor man/woman marriage. Proposition 8 in CA will insure that remains the law. It’s that simple.
I’m not twisting anything. As far as I know some staffer for Obama is likely making up this stuff. I know from what I have heard Sen. Obama say in appearances he unequivocally supports man/woman marriage.
When questioned about a Constitutional Amendment at that joint appearance, I think it was a Saddleback, he said in essence that he did not support federal constitutional amendments for man/woman marriage. His reasoning was that traditionally this question is left to the states. That’s a fair position. And, in CA the state’s voters had overwhelmingly answer this question in 2000. That’s another fact.
Furthermore the genderless marriage advocates wrap their cause in civil rights; but, in reality this is not about rights, civil or otherwise. Prior to the CA supreme court ruling, registered domestic partners had all the rights available to married couples under CA law. This is about societal acceptance–make no mistake.
October 7, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Guy,
Is the graphic you included in your post going to be seen throughout California? I think it’s great for more reasons than one.
October 7, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Aluwid:
I have no idea. I was able to obtain a copy and wanted to post it. Why do you think it is great for more reasons than one?
Let me further add, that if Sen. Obama’s campaign maintains a position in opposition to Proposition 8, they are simply wrong on the issue, and have not, in my view, given it very serious consideration. As you point out in your earlier comment, it is inconsistent to claim marriage is a man/woman institution and then turn around and deny the voter residents of a state where that question is up for a vote, the right to make their voices heard, and prevent the wholesale redefinition of marriage by a four unelected supreme court justices.
October 7, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Guy,
Because I want Proposition 8 to pass, and I’d also love to watch the Obama campaign squirm and try to explain how they can simultaneously oppose both Prop 8 as well as SSM.
October 7, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Aluwid:
Well, I too want to see Prop. 8 pass. My own uninformed and unofficial opinion is that probably many in the Obama campaign have knee jerk reactions to the genderless marriage amen corner. It is politically popular to embrace the genderless marriage movement as a constitutional right of the greatest magnitude; but, there is very little, if any, constitutional support or precedent for such a legal position. In CA, up until May, there was absolutely NO constitutional support or precedent for such a position.
Again, I think the staffers and advisors in the Obama campaign who are opposing Prop. 8 are simply wrong on that issue. They are right about Man/Woman marriage–just wrong on Prop. 8 opposition if that is the campaign’s true position.
That said, Sen. Obama is right about many, many other issues (far more than Sen. McCain), which is why I support him.
October 7, 2008 at 4:59 pm
This article notes that the opponents of Proposition 8 are concerned that a higher turnout for Obama may result in passage of Proposition 8. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21gay.html?scp=1&sq=obama%20same%20sex%20marriage&st=cse
The position of the campaign opposing Proposition 8 is difficult to reconcile with Obama’s position in support of traditional marriage.
I too am an Obama supporter, even though I disagree with him and his campaign on a number of issues.
October 7, 2008 at 5:04 pm
DavidH
Thanks for the NY Times link.
October 19, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I have seen all for canidates in this Presidential election state that they believe marriage is between a man and a women. This will in no means will hurt the rights of any american. Domestic Parterships and Civil Unions insure that all are protected under the law.
Were Obama says one thing to one group and another to another group is still up for debate!
October 30, 2008 at 8:08 am
I am an Obama supporter even if he does dissagree with SSM. We are on the same path when we feel that it is the right of the individual to chose. I am against abortion personally, but i am a Pro-choice supporter because i feel that every individual should be able to chose for themselves.