The No on 8 proponents now revealed its Anti-Mormon religious bigotry in their latest ad:
See David’s write up over at A Soft Answer. See also Marc’s post over at T & S.
If ever there was any question that so called “gay rights” and religious liberties are set to clash–that question has now been answered. Don’t think that these anti-Mormon zealots won’t use the force and weight of constitutional law to shut out, marginalize and destroy those of religious persuasion—well, think again. So, I guess its just fine to defame a Church and its missionary program for doing its job–speaking out on the moral issues of the day.
Make no mistake. This is a cultural and religious war–one waged by anti-religious bigots and zealots who define their entire existence by their sexual lifestyle. And, it’s being waged against those whose religious beliefs disagree that lifestyle. No question now which side has sunk below the gutter and sewer out of which it has crawled. Check out Daily Kos for those who so proudly claim responsibility for this slime.
November 3, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Thanks Guy.
I was going to send this to you but couldn’t find an email.
November 3, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Hi David,
I was just forwarded the link via email. Thanks for getting it up over at A Soft Answer so quickly, and your great write up. Not surprising at all actually.
November 3, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Wow nice. Gotta say it begs the question, How low can you go?
So how does anyone on any side expect a sensible debate when this kind of stuff happens. They must be worried they are losing if they are carpet bombing this kind of “stuff”.
November 3, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Guy,
Would you please be respectful. You call them bigots. They call you bigots. It seems both cancel each other out, so we should just stop the name calling.
as to this, as I just said over at T&S, I sure hope this was worth it. If it comes down between a choice of our missionaries being able to save souls or marriage defined as the church defines it, frankly I prefer our missionaries over the word.
November 3, 2008 at 9:13 pm
When the pro-8 ads continue to spout the “your church will be forced to do gay weddings and lose its tax-exemption” nonsense, it’s not surprising that the other side will start to spout nonsense, too.
November 3, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Jon,
You gotta realize, this ad really hits home because it shows quite clearly what it means to gays to have marriage. To them it is as sacred as our missionary work. How low would YOU go to protect what you see as sacred?
November 3, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Guy,
It is better than a skit on SNL.
Get a life, laugh a little. It is really a very funny parody.
November 3, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Just as “protectmarriage.com” is the official portal for the Yes on 8 campaign, Equality California is the official portal for the No on 8 campaign. This ad was produced by a different group and is not affiliated directly with Equality California. Kind of like when the Swift Boat people made their ad and didn’t go through the Republican National Committee or the Bush/Cheney Campaign in 2004.
So calm down, already.
November 3, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Not like you couldn’t see this coming. I expect this is just the tip of the iceberg. CA is probably the leaders in antibigot bigots. I don’t understand how you all have avoided civil war:) At least it is just on you tube and not airing on TV.
November 3, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Bob –
Not so. News reports say it will be airing tomorrow in California and on CNN and MSNBC. That’s some wide coverage of an ad that portrays Mormon missionaries as Nazis.
I think this will really hurt.
November 3, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Pretty lame, but also pretty predictable. We can’t expect to dabble in the political muckety-muck without getting lobbed a slimeball.
November 3, 2008 at 11:44 pm
And they say that the LDS are hateful…
November 4, 2008 at 5:31 am
I’m waiting for the Trey Parker remake.
November 4, 2008 at 7:07 am
The disturbing thing about this is how very effective it is.
Not at convincing people to vote for Prop. 8. But at enraging those who oppose it.
People keep saying that it’s turnabout- it is not.
Pro-Prop 8 ads have been arguing that gay marriage will effect the way educators teach moral values, ect.- things that have already occurred elsewhere.
A Pro-Prop8 Ad equivalent to this Anti-Mormon one, would be an ad suggesting the defeat of Prop-8 would result in the molestation of small boys.
That is how inflammatory this is.
Not to mention deceptive. For one thing, the passage of Prop8 would not deprive gays of any legal rights at all- the only difference is that their “marriages” will now be called “domestic partnerships”. This is a battle over the definition of a word. The importance of which is enormous for social and moral purposes, but insignificant for legal purposes.
Next, like most of the anti-Mormon stuff coming out of the No campaign it is deliberately obscuring the fact that all of this money donated by “the Mormon Church” is in fact not donated by the Mormon Church, but rather by individual citizens who happen to be Mormons, the vast majority of which live in California. The creators of this ad seem to think that Mormons don’t have the right to live anywhere outside of Utah- or that if they do they should shut up and be neither seen nor heard. (Go back to Utah is a repeated sentiment over at Daily Kos)
Furthermore, Mormon missionaries have absolutely no connection with the Yes on Prop 8 campaign. Their activities are religious evangelism, they are not political actors.
Finally, nobody is going to be invading anybody’s home, nor is there going to be any “Enforcement Division”.
This ad has only one purpose. Generate hate and rage against Mormons. And it will be very effective at that.
I’ve known for a long time that the gay political movement is filled with bullies. Like many bullies they are bullies because they were bullied. They got bullied and mocked and so on for being gay- but that does not justify their behavior. First they have persecuted the Boy Scouts, an honorable organization that helps young men grow up to be good members of society. Why? Because they won’t permit gay Scoutmasters? So what! Everybody in a society doesn’t have to agree. No, the gay movement went after the Boy Scouts because they were weak and vulnerable, and had few political contacts to fight back with.
They have been very successful in crippling the Boy Scouts, and now they are feeling their oats, and they see Mormons as vulnerable and isolated. There have even been comments about this video over at Daily Kos crowing about how easy it will be to turn people against an unpopular religious minority like the Church.
But you know who gets bullied the worst by the gay political movement? Gay People. If you’re gay and don’t toe the political line that has been decided for you, watch out! If you dare to vote Republican because, oh, I don’t know, you are concerned about taxes- well you better make sure the gay community doesn’t find out or else you’ll be ostracized. I have friends who it has happened too- It didn’t used to be that way.
Prop 8 had better pass- if it doesn’t expect Mormons to be on the receiving end of more direct attacks. Nothing encourages a bully like the appearance of weakness, and nothing discourages them faster then an appearance of strength.
The important question is going to be if the evangelicals will stand by us when we come under attack. I’m pessimistic, so don’t hold your breath.
November 4, 2008 at 8:08 am
To be honest, I expected worse. The acting was so bad and the hypothetical action was so over-the-top that only those who already hate the Mormons because of Prop 8 will find it convincing. Many might even see it as a direct attack on religion in general.
“The important question is going to be if the evangelicals will stand by us when we come under attack. I’m pessimistic, so don’t hold your breath.”
I have read some Evangelical news items and blogs related to Prop 8 and can already guess their positions. The involvement of Mormons is never mentioned or if Mormons are mentioned it is in tones of rumor. In other words, Mormon involvement is a ghost to them somewhere in the shadows. (I might even say that they are glad for the Mormon involvement because it has taken a lot of heat off of them).
The idea that this issue is damaging the Mormon image just doesn’t bother me at all. There is no hint of any change whatever. Those who dislike Mormons on the left just have a reason to vocalize it for a time. Those on the right who don’t like Mormons continue to not like them, and pretend that they don’t make a difference by supporting the same causes. Status Quo remains.
November 4, 2008 at 8:43 am
Gee, persecution complex much? What did John McCain say about sticks and stones?
November 4, 2008 at 9:21 am
Guy,
The video made the news in Utah today. I have not watched, but apparently the KSL new broadcast the first part of the video. It ended with the one missionary ransacking through the purse.
I think the reaction to this stupid skit is overblown. I wish more of us could see it in perspective. It is poorly disguised propaganda — not credible in its own light, and casts a poor impression of the “no-on-8″ camapign. Most people who watch it are familiar with the missionaries, and know what a ridiculously cartoonish parody this is, compared to what the missionaries really do,
If this is the best they can come up with, bring them on. They deserve to lose the campaign.
November 4, 2008 at 9:27 am
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the update. I haven’t checked any Utah media outlets today. Glad it’s getting some play. I agree with you to a degree; however, I think this also needs to be called for what it is: Hate Speech and religious bigotry. People supporting Proposition 8 have been labeled haters and bigots for expressing their views. This stuff, however, goes beyond any decent political discourse. It truly is vile and beneath contempt.
November 4, 2008 at 9:56 am
Anybody who doubts the insane rage of the pro-Prop. 8 supporters should read the comments at the Daily Kos link. Be very, very afraid.
November 4, 2008 at 9:57 am
Sorry, I meant anti-Prop. 8 supporters.
November 4, 2008 at 10:35 am
How much money has the Yes on 8 campaign spent trying to paint opponents as threats to our children?
As far as I can tell, most folks who are outraged because of this ad are mostly angry that it exposes what Prop 8 is really all about.
Instead of offering a solemn rebuttal, we chose to chuckle at the awful reality of what Yes on 8 supporters are actually proposing be done.
Get a sense of humor and deal.
November 4, 2008 at 10:35 am
Nobody seems to get too upset when South Park takes on the Mormons. It is taken for granted that South Park will have an element of irreverence. Although it may not be obvious, the Courage Campaign tends to produce a genre of over-the-top political ads. One only needs to view their “Gender Auditors” ad to recognize that we have entered to realm of parody and satire. It is a political cartoon, much as is the “Title of Liberty” image.
November 4, 2008 at 10:43 am
I haven’t seen the ad, but it’s obviously not to be taken at face value. It’s Monty Python’s “Spanish Inquisition” meets the Mormons.
November 4, 2008 at 10:52 am
Has the video been taken down? I can’t get your link to work.
November 4, 2008 at 10:57 am
Never mind.
November 6, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Wait, so Mormons, the LDS Church, very loudly push for Prop 8, and work to strip the rights of people, and yet the people simply trying to remove a privilege, given to you by the federal government, the removal of which will not affect your religious rights or freedoms, and you equate these?
November 7, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Over-the-top? Absolutely. A fair portrayal of what it feels like to have constitutional human rights stripped from you and allowed to EVERYONE else? Absolutely. It would feel invasive, intimidating and wrong.
Wake up American churches, equal rights for all is something that IS GOING TO HAPPEN eventually. Would you want to look back on segregation and say that you SUPPORTED it?
And the way you all justify discrimination turns MILLIONS of people off, who would otherwise love to take part in a spiritual community… I should know, I’m one of them. But I absolutely cannot stand for inequality and discrimination which is why I will never again step foot in your church until you practice love of all people.
November 7, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Here’s an example for you. I come from a part of the country where there aren’t very many Mormons. I saw the guys riding around on their bikes and thought they were harmless–just doing their thing. Live and let live.
Then the LDS Church got behind Prop. 22 and now Prop. 8.
So, now, I am politically hostile to the LDS and think that a campaign to expose the aspects of Mormonism that seem particularly weird to the public at large would be an appropriate and effective counter-action. I lived in California for a while and know a number of gay ex-Mormons from whom to get all the details. To the mainstream, I would represent you as loonies believing in all kinds of science fiction nonsense. To the evangelicals, of course, you’re heretics, pure and simple. A simple atheist is much less of a threat to them than a whole alternative religion.
In the information age, such a thing is not hard to do.
Note that I am not ranting about bigotry, nor do I hate individual Mormons, but the Church of LDS has entered the world of power politics. In that world, you neutralize your enemies, often by discrediting them. You can’t say, “Oh, you can’t criticize us. We’re a church!” That’s not how the game is played.
A couple of years ago, I joined the Unitarian Church. Why? Because they seemed, by and large, to be decent, fair-minded, kind people, which they have turned out to be. They didn’t have to proselytize me; they simply had to be who they were.
They don’t do the kind of things you do.
Perhaps if the Church of LDS led by example rather than trying to roll across other’s lives like a juggernaut with a golden angel on top, people would want to follow that example rather than being alienated.
November 8, 2008 at 12:05 am
“This is a cultural and religious war–one waged by anti-religious bigots and zealots who define their entire existence by their sexual lifestyle.”
I am against Prop 8. I am also a devout straight Latter-day Saint.
What exactly are you saying Guy?
Hmmm… somebody is toting some major hate on his shoulder.
November 8, 2008 at 3:11 pm
That was a great ad – not perhaps very effective in convincing undecided voters, but an unusually accurate and vivid depiction of what the LDS Church were trying to do to LGBT Californians: invade their homes and rip up their marriage licenses.
No doubt painful to Latter-Day Saints who hadn’t faced up to what their church was doing… but should have been a call to speak out against the bigotry of the church leadership, not to get mad at the people who were pointing out what their church was doing in California.
November 10, 2008 at 11:50 am
When ANYONE fights with vitriol, sweeping (cruel) generalizations, ugly name-calling, threats, bullying, reassembling things out of context to make their opponents appear “wrong”, “hateful”, and “hypocritical”, and above all mocking the sacred beliefs of others, then their side screams to me: “Scrupulously avoid this!” I cannot support such tactics at all. (Those who caused 9-11 justify themselves.) Aside from a few foolish people making comments NOT supported by the Pro-8 campaign, I’ve seen only a respectful and logical laying out of facts straight from cases in other places. The anti 8 folks call this “lies”, and then proceed to label people (whose minds they cannot read) “extremists” and “bigots”. I’m shocked by the seething hatred aimed at people who ALSO voted their conscience but who disagree. I had compassion for gays, but it’s been badly tattered by the domestic terrorism I’ve seen. And now they attempt to overturn (again) the legal vote of the majority. Had Prop 8 failed, there would be no question of whether the vote was legal. There would also be no organized hazing and hate. That speaks volumes.
November 10, 2008 at 12:51 pm
There are large amounts of misinformation about LDS support of prop 8 which suggests Mormons have some sort of vendetta against gays. In reality, many Mormons respect gays’ right to live as they choose; even church leaders have officially stated they support legalizing domestic partnerships.
November 10, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Willard: There are large amounts of misinformation about LDS support of prop 8 which suggests Mormons have some sort of vendetta against gays.
Yeah, you’re right: I think it all started with this, which has received wide currency as authentic, if you can believe that – as the instigation of a nationwide vendetta by Mormons against gays. There was another similar piece of misinformation being spread around a few weeks later, claiming that the LDS thinks gays are inferior and don’t deserve the same rights as straight people. Pretty ugly stuff, and very convincingly presented: it’s hardly surprising it even fooled so many Mormons into thinking that the First Presidency wanted them to support Proposition 8 instead of respect gays’ right to live as they choose.
November 13, 2008 at 1:07 pm
To Burroughs Fan:
Your comments only support the previous postings on how mean and nasty many in the “no on 8″ crowd are. The attitude seems to be: as soon as someone crosses you in any way, or disagrees with you, attack! Don’t forgive, or try to understand, just try to destroy them and their whole belief system. What kind of compassion is that? We don’t need this kind of bullying attitude, it’s childish and immature. You can disagree with someone’s views without being disagreeable. Intense anger and hatred seem to be the hallmark of this crowd. Do we see that in the LDS, who by and large are peaceful, try to love others and turn the other cheek? It’s not “hate” and “bigotry” to want to preserve the original definition of marriage. We don’t hate gays. It’s a great thing for them to have equal rights and to be treated with respect, but changing the definition of marriage is a whole different matter entirely. We’re not trying to take away anyone’s rights, just trying to preserve a traditional definition of marriage. Can’t they get that through their thick skulls? I think it’s because they don’t want to accept that. They want to find fault and make false accusations and purposely choose that route so they can justify their goals of forcing everyone to accept everything about homosexuality.
November 13, 2008 at 1:23 pm
but changing the definition of marriage is a whole different matter entirely.
Yeah, because life was much better when marriage was a property negotiation between a man and his future wife’s father, where the woman would have no choice in who she married, no right to protest or resist if her husband raped her, and no right to sign contracts in her own name, control her own property, or have custody of her own children. That was the definition of marriage: a profoundly unequal relationship between a man and a woman in which the man had all the power and the woman had none.
Redefine marriage until it turns into a relationship of equals, where both partners have the same rights, responsibilities, and obligations towards each other – and, sooner or later, it occurs to people that there’s no reason this redefined marriage cannot equally apply to same-sex partners.
“Redefining marriage” has already happened. Too late to go back and demand that it become traditional marriage again…
November 13, 2008 at 1:28 pm
so they can justify their goals of forcing everyone to accept everything about homosexuality
If gays are allowed to be married, what exactly will you have been forced to accept about homosexuality?