Welfare data from Utah, Arizona, and Texas do not support claims of massive FLDS fraud against the government.
Yet six speakers at a July 24 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing — from Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid to former plural wife Carolyn Jessop — said fraud and misuse of welfare funds is a primary reason the federal government should be more involved in investigating the sect. Reid said the FLDS have a “sophisticated, wealthy and vast criminal organization” that includes “welfare fraud.”
Jessop told the committee the FLDS engage in a “religious doctrine” known as ‘bleeding the beast,’ ” which she explained included applying for “every possible type of government of assistance that is available.” Author Stephen Singular, who has written a book about the FLDS, told the committee that Colorado City residents received “eight times the welfare assistance of comparably sized towns in the area.”
Hey, Harry, the nation is poised on the brink of another Depression, and you’re off investigating the FLDS–at taxpayer expense– when the data doesn’t even support the claims? And, Carolyn Jessop? Does anyone believe she has an ounce of credibility when it comes to FLDS issues? That’s like asking Fawn Brodie to write an objective biography of the Prophet Joseph Smith. (Cute the July 24th hearing date).
Face it, the government is still singling out the FLDS because of their peculiar and unpopular religious beliefs and practices. You don’t hear this in reference to lifestyles in government run ghettos all over the country:
But Paul Murphy, spokesman for Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, said that while there may not be “outright fraud” by the polygamous community, there is “a resentment that taxpayers are being used to support this lifestyle.
January 4, 2009 at 10:58 pm
So, someone who was FLDS can’t even tell the truth?
Where on earth is the logic there? Wait, there isn’t any.
January 4, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Gotta love it, Guy! You’ll defend the FLDS right to live plural marriage without government interference, but then you’ll take every opportunity you can to slam that OTHER group of folks who don’t adhere to LDS relationship rules! What a champion of freedom!
January 4, 2009 at 11:26 pm
b #1
No. Carolyn Jessop who was once FLDS is so blind with bias against anything FLDS related is not a credible source. It’s that simple.
Nick #2
Hey Nick. Long time no see–welcome back. I guess I’m more inclined to defend the legitimate FLDS constitutional claims rather than those made up out of whole cloth by judicial fiat.
Anyway, Happy New Year man.
January 5, 2009 at 11:30 am
Guy, what do you base your assertion that there is no welfare fraud on? I’ve never seen or heard anything either way. I mean, I’ve heard the assertsions but never seen proof for or against.
January 5, 2009 at 11:54 am
PDoE, did you read the Trib article Guy linked to?
Am I the only one who doesn’t believe for a minute that it took eight months to compile all of this data?
January 5, 2009 at 4:19 pm
The attack on Carolyn Jessop seems unwarranted.
Her book is pretty compelling and rings true.
She claims that the FLDS: 1) Marry underage girls to older men 2) Restrict the liberty of women 3) Isolate FLDS members from the outside world and 4) Run by a petty tyrant.
Let’s see how those have held up:
1) The FLDS do marry underage girls to older men. There were the 8 documented underage marriages in Texas. Remember the infamous Warren Jeffs smooching with pre-teen girls lucky to have married the pedophile.
2) The FLDS sharply limit the freedom of women. Ever visited Colorado City? It is sad to watch them walk behind their husband. Few obtain education or have the right to jobs. Reading materials are severely restricted. Most have no or little money. Sad.
3) Isolation from the world. Let’s see .. Mr. Jeffs forbade most books, media, etc. He distributed his little tapes describing how evil the world was and how they were out to get his righteous followers. What was the purpose for Yearning for Zion in Texas? It was simply an out-of-the-way place to engage in impregnation of underage girls.
4) Does anyone seriously doubt Mr. Jeffs was a tyrant? This is a man who took families away from men who had crossed him and married them off to someone else. Family members were forbidden to interact with their father. He is the guy behind the so-called “lost boys” — teenagers driven away so they can’t compete with teh older men for the younger girls.
My bottom line is that Carolyn Jessop’s primary charges of stood the test of being manifest in the real world.
Those who trash her really just want to support the sleazy behavior of the FLDS community. This is a truly evil cult — child rape, oppression of women, separating families, etc.
Carolyn Jessop deserves praise — not condemnation — for exposing the ugly underbelly of the FLDS movement.
January 5, 2009 at 4:29 pm
I should let the above post standalone but . .
The above posts allude to the FLDS use of government resources.
Ever been to Colorado City? Almost none of the homes are finished — missing siding, parts of the roof off, etc.
Why? The FLDS do it to minimize property taxes by claiming that the property is not done, therefore not subject to real property taxes. It is fraud pure & simple.
Ever seen an FLDS member in a store? Invariably they’ll have their stack of food stamps. Why should the father support the family when the wives can claim to be single mothers requiring welfare?
Health care? Same story. Huge numbers are on Medicaid.
Ask anyone in Kanab or St. George and they will all have stories of the above.
FLDS culture is predicated on stealing from the government — local, state and federal. Why? Because they are part of the evil world. Therefore, it is right to steal as much as possible.
January 5, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Nope, somehow I’d missed seeing the link. Can’t follow a link I don’t see!
I’ve never personally seen an FLDS (to my knowledge) period, let alone their homes or city. Not too many of them on the East Coast.
January 6, 2009 at 7:52 am
PDOE,
Sorry. I try to make the links bold, and may not have caught that one by the time you read it. But, Jim is correct, I reference the study linked to in the Tribune. Now, I haven’t personally checked the source material, so I am relying on the Tribune’s accuracy; however, this particular Tribune reporter, Brooke Adams is likely the most knowledgeable and credible reporter on the planet when it comes to polygamy and the FLDS.
Steve, sounds like you and Carolyn have similar dim views of the FLDS community. If you’ve read any of my posts on the FLDS, whether it’s Warren Jeffs, or the Texas raid, or anything, I think you will come away with the fact that I don’t defend their specific lifestyle. Rather, I am troubled by the way the government goes after the FLDS because of that lifestyle.
February 6, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Steve, I’m sorry, but your above post is an absolute lie. The FLDS don’t try to avoid property taxes. In fact they have always paid their property taxes in full and on time until Bruce Wisan took over. People stopped working on their homes when Wisan took over. Would you pour money and time into a house that could be taken away from you and assigned to your bitter enemy? It’s people like you that cause the worst problems. Spouting off vicious lies as if they are the truth.
February 6, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Also, Steve, I don’t know how familiar you are with Mormon history, or any religious history, but how often has an apostate told the “truth” about their religion? Why was Joseph smiled jailed dozens of times? It wasn’t because he had done wrong, but because apostates spread lies and rumors, and everyone wanted to believe it so they could have an excuse to attack him. They tell the worst kinds of lies, and everyone is supposed to believe them because “they’ve been there” right? That is exactly why they are unbelievable. They are willing to say anything to attack their former faith so they will feel justified for their own behavior. History repeats itself.
February 6, 2009 at 5:20 pm
oops, I meant “Why was Joseph Smith jailed dozens of times.”